Trump Offered Planned Parenthood A Deal, But They Rejected Him

Submitted by: 5cats 1 week ago News & Politics


The Conservative Review asks, "This all begs the question: If Planned Parenthood was really concerned about vital low-cost health services for women, and really thought the organization would not be able to adequately service patients without an enormous taxpayer kickback, why would it put said handouts on the chopping block for something it says is such a negligible part of its entire existence?"

In short, Trump told Planned Parenthood they could keep their funding if they got rid of abortion procedures.

Planned Parenthood and its detractors will move the numbers around to feed their narrative, yet some IAB members actually believe abortion is only 3% of their "business," but overlook that it's a gigantic chunk of their revenue... and they get $500,000,000 in taxpayer money on top of this? 

Planned Parenthood conducts 330,000 abortions a year -- that's almost 30% of those done across America. By the same '3% logic' this would also be true: "Major League Baseball teams could say that they sell about 20 million hot dogs and play 2,430 games in a season, so baseball is only .012 percent of what they do."

Trump called their bluff, and they not only blinked? They folded like a house of cards.
There are 98 comments:
Male 620
Planned parenthood probably prevents 1000x more abortions than they perform via distribution of birth control alone. How's that for a deal?
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Male 38,021
I do not understand people who think killing a baby is an okay thing to do. I just don't get how they can convince themselves a baby is not a human life.  I don't think I'll win any people over, nor win any arguments with pro-abortionists.  I just truly don't understand how you talk yourself into the mindset " I am having a baby but I'll kill it instead ".   SMH
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Male 4,372
Gerry1of1 Don't knock it till you tried it. You just have not had one cooked right
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Male 620
Gerry1of1 That's because you can't abort a baby. Abortion occurs well before there is a baby.
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Male 38,021
marsii If I kill it I am charged with murder. If the mother kills it it is an abortion. Same baby, same crime, different legal labels.
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Male 620
Gerry1of1 If you assault a pregnant woman you will be charged regardless you'll find. Perhaps you should consider not assaulting women pregnant or not? If she chooses to end her pregnancy it's none of your fucking business. Understand?
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Male 7,497
marsii So, the outcome of the child is totally dependent upon her whim and the father has no say-so. 

Likewise, the father has no financial obligation should the mother decide to carry to term?
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Male 620
megrendel Oh sparky, you're not going to like this but the outcome of a lot of things depends on what you do and your "whim" so if the father doesn't want to be a father then he better wrap his "whim" up. 

Likewise, if a the "mother" was raped by the "father" she has to suffer that indignity for 9 months and possibly die during child birth? How about wrap your shit and keep it out of other people's business instead.
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Male 7,497
marsii As you intentionally portray two varied extremes of the issue while ignoring the majority, you demonstrate you are arguing from a losing position.

Two people are responsible for making a baby.  One has the ability of opting out. So why shouldn't't the other. Why shouldn't he be able to 'abort' his responsibility?
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Male 620
megrendel You can argue that a man can abort his responsibility, I don't actually care about that. The issue you are trying to run from (because you are arguing from a losing position) is telling one gender they can't have access to a medical procedure because of your beliefs. Logging isn't illegal because you believe what you saw in Fern Gully so so women shouldn't have to risk their lives and go into further poverty because you have opinions. 
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Male 7,497
marsii Actually, as I've mentioned before, you have no idea of my stance on abortion.

Previously we've argued (and you lost) about the definition of life.

Here's we're arguing (and you're losing) why only one of the parents has the right to end their responsibility.
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Male 620
megrendel Wow, look at George W. standing next to his mission accomplished banner. Your previous arguement resulting in you struggling and failing to reconcile how a human life starts at a zygote and develops into a corps with no brain. Hint: it doesn't there was no human life there which is why abortion doesn't kill anyone. Currently you are arguing that women shouldn't have control over what happens to their body (commonly a right for other humans) because men sometimes have to pay child support. This poses a question for you republicans, if you have a zygote (which you are calling a human life) and it develops into a woman at what point did it stop being a human with rights? Ah well, I should have listened to Mark and stopped responding to your pleas for attention a while ago: 

Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

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Male 7,497
marsii failing to reconcile how a human life starts at a zygote 

Actually, you failed to prove otherwise. I offered citations of where scientists recognize that life begins at conception, based on the scientific definition of life. The only corpse with no brain around is currently you.

marsii Currently you are arguing that women shouldn't have control over what happens to their body

Actually, I have not stated, nor inferred, such.  You seem to have a reading comprehension issue.  I suggest you re-read what has been written and have someone explain it to you.

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Male 620
megrendel My proof was valid and final. If a zygote with this particular defect was a living human then it would have to die sometime between its formation and it's development  into a brainless corpse. There is no such point and therefore there is no such human. It was never a human life. An infant that is stillborn will have a point of death and an infant is a human that cannot be aborted. It is no longer an abortion when you have a human infant.  You on the other hand can do nothing but dodge and insult because you are a petulant child, not a scientist. Even worse all you have is a piss poor defense of an opinion you won't even commit to. I get a little tingle every time I see you reply to this topic because its an easy ego boost for me every time. Do you really think you look like you're doing well in this argument? 

This is what you sound like to others:

"B..b..but I read online! Well, I don't even really think that anyway! You can't prove I think that even though that's what I'm defending! You didn't win, I won dummy! I'm a real scientist too!"
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Male 7,497



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Male 620
megrendel In your case 0 facts.
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Male 38,021
marsii Is that what you say to yourself ? Sad.... no other comment, just sad for you
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Male 620
Gerry1of1 Semen and eggs mixed in a cup and suddenly we have a Holocaust as a result of a spill? I don't think so. Do you tell yourself that an embryo is a person just so you can pretend to have superior morals without having to think for 2 minutes?
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Male 7,497
marsii you mention cups of semen quite often...is that your drink of choice?
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Male 620
megrendel It's the chaser I give your mom. You don't want to know what the drink was ;)
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Male 37,015
Gerry1of1 Gerry1? He is MarsII the shit-troll. He literally has nothing to do with his life than to shit-troll others here on IAB. 
I don't pay attention to his nonsense any longer. He will never change.
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Female 3,273
Gerry1of1 its so you dont have to face what you're doing.  If you want it, its a baby, if you dont want it, its a 'mass of parasitic tissues".
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Male 7,497
melcervini Only to people who have no idea on what 'parasitic' means.
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Male 4,372
melcervini Like my one girl friends
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Male 7,497
thezigrat I concur with melcervini...lmafao.
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Female 3,273
thezigrat lmfao!
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Male 4,370
The source, that the Conservative Review and our local feline use to "prove" the 3% number is a "lie", is rich. Literally, it's Rich Lowry's opinion piece in the New York Post. Even a biased conservative tabloid like this one said, yeah, we're not publishing this as an article, we're putting this stinking pile of false equivalence in the opinion section. Nice "fact checking" source.
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Male 37,015
markust123 It is an obvious, blatant lie. It's 'true' if you jerk around the statistics, exactly the same way the baseball analogy is also 'true' eh?

What is their main source of INCOME? THAT is their business, not the tiny, trivial things a customer can get at any clinic or pharmacy. Same for baseball. They make 1 million off the hotdogs, sure it's true, but 100 million off the tickets and royalties for the games played. Ok?

And they don't DO mammograms, they refer them to other clinics... that's another 'big lie' they used not long ago to distract from their illegally selling baby parts...
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Male 210
It matters not a single fuck what percentage of their service is abortion. This was a deplorable and idiot move made by an uneducated ass of a president, who has demonstrated a grave lack of knowledge on the subject of abortion.  
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Male 37,015
mrteatime Gosh! Forcing others to pay for your elective surgeries is the foundation of America! How dare Trump keep a campaign promise that the majority of Americans support and agree with? The nerve of him eh?
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Male 210
5cats Regardless, I stand by my comment.
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Male 37,015
mrteatime Here's a quote from a very famous person to support my point below:

It's not that conservatives don't care. We do. We just have different answers than liberals do. It's a difference of the mind, not of the heart. 
 
The curious can look up who said this :-) You might be surprised?

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Male 37,015
mrteatime How do you know he doesn't know anything (or 'enough' in your opinion) about the subject of abortion? Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean they 'don't know' about it. 

That is one of the greatest fallacies of leftist-liberalism. Generally speaking, not picking on you Mr.Tea. :-)

This notion that anyone who doesn't agree with you is just ignorant. uneducated, dumb! IF ONLY they knew as much as you knew? They're surely agree with you! They have NO valid arguments or facts, just a LACK of knowledge! Thus YOU can never be wrong about anything, and NO ONE ON EARTH can legitimately disagree with you, since THEY are the problem, and you are perfect (and smarter than them, obviously).

I see this constantly, it's why Elitism is rampant in the liberal-left... well, one of many reasons.
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Male 210
5cats I'm not interested in debating the left vs the right, it's a tedious argument. 

Trump's lack of knowledge on abortion was made clear during the election debates, his comments showed a clear lack of understanding and it was widely noted at the time.

I support a woman's right to choose abortion regardless of income, social status or background. Trump's decision is a big step in removing this choice and I strongly disagree with it.

Why is that so difficult for you to accept?
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Male 37,015
mrteatime I believe you have your opinions, I don't doubt that. What I seriously do NOT believe is that PDT's beliefs or opinions on abortion or almost any topic are "because he's an idiot" or "because he knows nothing" about it.
He isn't an "idiot" he's a self-made billionaire and the President of the United States.
He isn't "ignorant" he has a lifetime of learning and experiences to draw from.

It is your "mind reading" I do not accept. Just sayin, you seem to be oblivious as to how stupid it sounds: That a grown person cannot possibly hold an opinion different than YOURS unless he's IGNORANT and "knows nothings about it"? Because YOU know everything and anyone who knows that much would agree with you. Thus you know he is "uneducated" because... he disagrees with you. That's what I'm saying here.
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Male 210
5cats You are making an awful lot of assumptions there and putting words in my mouth! 

Probably best that we agree to disagree on this one, with all due respect we aren't going anywhere worthwhile continuing with this discussion.
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Male 37,015
mrteatime This was a deplorable and idiot move made by an uneducated ass of a president, who has demonstrated a grave lack of knowledge on the subject of abortion

I am not putting anything into your mouth, dude. I'm assuming nothing at all, you said those very words willingly. Unless you're speaking a language other than English here? You said he was (I paraphrase) an uneducated idiot who knows nothing about abortion.

That's what I was discussing here, with you, and I do appreciate that you've been polite :-) Hope I was in return eh?
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Male 210
5cats Sure, all seemed civilized enough to me.
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Male 3,435
PlannedParenthood is a corporation. They are receiving tax money.

My stance, on all corporations is, no government funded corporate subsidies.

That goes for green energies, coal, oil, tobacco, corn, sugar, etc.
If a particular field is going to fail without being propped up, then it should fail until it can succeed.
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Male 620
DuckBoy87 planned parenthood is a non profit. They arent there to make money which is why these attacks on them are absurd.
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Female 3,273
marsii year after year they have excess revenue over expenses (but claimed a 78 million loss in 'investments'?!?!)  that's "for profit' I dont care what you label it.  They're making money hand over fist and dont need govt monies.
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Male 620
melcervini No they don't.
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Male 190
DuckBoy87 100% agree.  I don't care what your "business" is.  Survive on your own without a single taxpayer penny.
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Male 5,633
They were right to tell him to stick it up his ass. Abortion is legal and he has no right to tell them to put an end to safely providing a legal service to those women who feel they need it.
Also, your baseball analogy is really kind of inappropriate. People go to baseball games and, while they're there, they get something to eat. Women don't go to Planned Parenthood for abortions and, while they're there, get a full Gynecology exam with a PAP smear and breast exam and referral for mammogram. These are completely separate and unrelated services. The only way your analogy works is if people who want a hotdog buy a ticket to the game so they can go to the snackbar to buy lunch, and then leave.
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Male 37,015
broizfam When a woman goes for an abortion? They have several tests, interviews and exams as part of the process. Thus with 6 of those and 1 abortion? "Only 16%" of their service is an abortion... yet ALL were connected to the abortion, understand it now?

So their 3% is a big fat lie. How much of their revenue comes from the 300,000 abortions? A hell of a lot...
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Male 5,633
5cats A large part of what many Planned Parenthood offices do is regular annual women's health exams. Those have nothing to do with abortion. So stopping all funding because some do abortions has the effect of denying routine annual women's health care to a large number of women.
Do you understand that, now?
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Male 4,372
broizfam LETS DE-FUND DEFENSE BECAUSE THEY OCCASIONALLY KILL UNBORN CHILDREN
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Male 37,015
thezigrat 330,000 a year is occasionally? Fuck you you fucking idiot troll. 
Quick! how many gun homicides in the USA each year?? Eh? Which is higher? 1.1 Million abortions (of which PP does roughly 1/3) or that?
Fucking idiot...
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Male 4,372
5cats They kill innocent women too
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Male 4,372
thezigrat  Anyone else notice that when 5cats can not come up with a logical retort he resorts to vulgar insults?
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Male 37,015
broizfam So? These women cannot possibly get that service outside of PP? And THE POINT IS that PP is WILLING to sacrifice those women for the MONEY they make from abortions.
Do you understand anything at all on this issue? Trump offered to fund all those other things, but PP refused. They are the ones putting women in danger, not Trump.
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Male 4,372
5cats Many can not afford such health screenings out side of planned parenthood
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Male 37,015
thezigrat There's TONS of FREE alternatives to the "other services" PP offers. The ISSUE is PP using taxpayer money to carry out 330,000 abortions every year. So fuckoff with your lies. 

Abortions are "health screenings" now? Seriously? Fuck you.

PP is not free, the taxpayer money doesn't grow on trees, it is a burden to everyone. And YOU are just:
  1. changing the subject
  2. a shit-troll
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Male 5,633
5cats Typical conservative ignorance. Trump is essentially finding a way to stop a legal procedure by defunding the entire association if they continue to offer that service along with all the others and you're supporting that. The point is not that Planned Parenthood is sacrificing those women's care over abortions, it's that Trump is.
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Male 37,015
broizfam No, it is NOT THE GOVERNMENT'S JOB to fund a fucking abortion.

Again: NO use of taxpayers money is REQUIRED for abortions, so why do YOU want to FORCE people to fund things they morally object to? When did a FREE ABORTION become a FUCKING RIGHT?
How about the rights of the human is who being KILLED? He/she has a separate DNA from the mother, it is not 'a clump of cells' it is a living, growing human being with its own DNA (after the 4th division, in the first few days).

You have it ASS BACKWARDS again: Trump is offering to fund PP for everything EXCEPT abortions. All PP has to do is drop "3%" of it's "care" and presto! The 97% is fully funded! WHY don't they do that? Because:

  1. 3% is a big fat lie
  2. Their income (profits!) comes from abortion
  3. Selling dead baby parts is also very profitable
  4. ALL their other 'services' are easily and readily available from other providers.

You cannot fund the 97% and pretend the other 3% isn't also getting funding, that's bullshit and you ought to be smart enough to figure that out...

If I give a wino/junky $5 'for food' you know what happens? Sure, he spends my $5 on food... and the $5 he already had for food goes to... alcohol/drugs... I just funded his alcoholism/habit. Facts > feelings bro...
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Male 5,633
5cats #1 - If Planned Parenthood charges for abortion services (I don't know if they do but they certainly can) then that service is not going to be paid for by taxpayer money. If that was what that moron Trump was telling them to do (ie. charge for abortion services so taxpayers aren't paying for them) I'd have nothing to complain about. I'm not particularly fond of the idea of my money paying for someone else's abortion, either.
#2 - Stop hawking this moronic conservative bullshit about them making profits from selling baby parts. Asshole conservatives made that up just to get people pissed off. Planned Parenthood was willing to supply fetal tissue, for use in studies that might actually be useful in saving lives by adding to the understanding of our biology, at a price that covered the expense of separating, preserving, and storing it.
#3 - All their other services are certainly readily available from other providers but not necessarily at a price they can afford. That's the reason for the funding!

Are you getting any of this?
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Male 37,015
broizfam 1. I have no idea what they charge for this or that, but they get 500,000,000 in taxpayer money and provide abortions which is not what the taxpayers want to pay for.

2. It's a fact, deal with reality. They sold "tissue" of dead babies for money. For profit. It does not take tens of thousands of dollars to do those things, especially since the companies who bought them often supplied most of the materials required. That is leftist bullshit and you know it.

3. So fund those OTHER available resources who DO NOT also carry out 300,000 abortions a year, do you not "get it" at all? Give THEM funding! Not PP.
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Male 4,372
5cats  Selling dead baby parts is also very profitable 
was debunked as an out right Lie

ALL their other 'services' are easily and readily available from other providers.  at an expensive price that many low income families can not afford
#Real Truth

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Male 97
broizfam To add to what you said, its also not just about women.  They do a lot for birth control (since if a guy gets a condom, that could prevent pregnancy in the first place) and STD testing/treatment.  Regardless, if a store offered 1000 items and someone has a problem with one item on the shelf because it disagreed with their religion, they would fight to have the store shut down.
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Male 37,015
kuman As I said, it is PP refusing to do those things, and Trump who is offering to continue providing tax dollars to do them. 

One item on the shelf? Don't make me laugh. 

This vegetable soup has all natural ingredients, it's super-good for you! Oh, but JUST ONE ingredient is strychnine, and quite a lot of it, but that's OK it's JUST ONE ITEM in the soup! Just 3% of it... Bon appetite!

(hint: the LD-50 for humans is 16mg/kg... I looked it up for you)
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Male 97
5cats i don't know if i really want to open this can of worms (or soup, if we use that metaphor because people won't really eat a can of worms, but i digress), but why not remove the item from the store instead of closing the store because you don't like that item?

Sadly, if more US consumers were well educated about "soup prevention," then the need for people who want to eat soup could be reduced.

This wouldn't be as much of an issue if the people who preached about not making soup in their Sunday sermons would realize what freedom of religion actually means.  It means that you are free to believe what you want, but not to use your personal beliefs to impose on the person next to you.
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Male 37,015
kuman Um, that is what Trump is proposing. Remove abortion from PP's services and they get their funding back.

It is PP and the liberal-left who are refusing to compromise, they are the ones responsible if people suffer from "lack of services". Elective, voluntary surgery is not a 'human right' in any way, why force others to pay for it?
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Male 97
5cats There are many elective, voluntary surgeries that are covered by insurance (vasectomy, lap band, some plastic surgery).  Also, there are other "electives" that are covered by insurance like viagra.  Those don't end up with heated debates because there's no religion attached (even though there could be).  In fact, i have never seen anyone picket a doctor because he prescribes any of the things i've mentioned.  A vasectomy removes procreation (just a little earlier than post conception), which should be religiously banned, but no one cares.  Too many double edged swords.

Fine, i'll fly off the handle and rant...  Gay marriage is wrong in the bible, but so is wearing mixed material clothing, wearing glasses, pre-marital sex, masturbation, and eating shellfish.  Remember the part about stoning to death people who cheated while they were married?  What about divorce?  That seems pretty popular even though its a sin.  People only want to follow laws for their religion when they are convenient for them.  How often is the phrase "love one another" or "turn the other cheek" used instead of a xenophobic criticism?

Well, that pretty much derailed everything...  not that much matters anyway...  our fates are decided by officials elected on lies and false hopes (also sins if we're still counting), so we can all complain and cry or yell or scream and it won't make a bit of difference while the sheeple (combination of sheep and people lending to the herd mentality instead of thinking for yourself because it is too hard to think for yourself or do a damned bit of research) believe what they are fed.

*finally gets the hell off of the damned soap box*
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Male 37,015
kuman Insurance, not taxpayers money. Big difference.

Abortion is specifically outlawed in the Bible too, the "Eye for an eye, a life for a life" thing? The life referred to is an unborn baby. Or someone gored by a bull, one of those :-/

You make ludicrous arguments based on nothing but leftist propaganda, and I'm supposed to take you seriously?
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Male 4,372
broizfam I'm sure the president has paid for at least one abortion in his life, more likely lots.
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Male 97
thezigrat Oh sure!  Women HAVE to be chomping at the bit to sleep with a man who treats women like he does (being called a fat pig is what the third fifty shades of grey book is going to cover).  Hmmm...  makes me wonder if you can return a Russian mail-order bride after conjugal relations or would that be like breaking the seal on a bottle of aspirin?
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Male 4,372
kuman That's where Vagaseal (TM) comes in 
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Male 97
thezigrat Oooooh...  wait...  why didn't that come up in the thread about the Canadian judge who wanted the victim to keep her legs closed?  Too soon?
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Male 4,372
kuman yep
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Male 4,372
kuman 
they would for a man who would buy them anything they want. The Trump has had many known affairs, likely more unknown.
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Male 97
thezigrat You know what?  The more i think about this, the less i realize that i want to think about him in bed (or in a Russian hotel room).
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Male 4,372
kuman I scream in terror over that thought
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Male 19,981
broizfam Good point about the incorrect correlation with abortion and baseball. When it comes down to it though, everyone's shifting numbers and statistics to make the metrics work for them. But in the end, for now, abortion is still legal. 
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210
“Let’s be clear: Federal funds already do not pay for abortions,” Dawn Laguens, the executive vice president of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America, said on Monday. “Offering money to Planned Parenthood to abandon our patients and our values is not a deal that we will ever accept. Providing critical health care services for millions of American women is nonnegotiable.”

Apparently 5cats thinks that sticking to your principles even if it costs you money is 'folding like a house of cards' and 'having your bluff called'. Most people would think the opposite, when someone sticks to their position.

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Male 37,015
barry9a The point is, they will sacrifice their entire business over the abortion issue. It is far more important than "3%" to them, obviously. 

And obviously 300,000+ abortions a year is what is at stake. The taxpayers no longer feel like paying for it, so it is time for the liberal left to dig into their own pockets, instead of someone else's...
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Male 1,364
5cats I'm not a woman. Being a woman is 0% of my life.

I will fight and risk my job, my possessions, and my home in order to fight for the rights of women, and to fight for equality for women.

It affects 0% of my life. But in order to do the right thing, I will fight.

This is why Republicans don't understand Democrats and Democrats don't understand Republicans. 

Democrats ask, "What can my country do for my neighbor? My brother? My friend?" They don't understand why Republicans never ask that question.

Republicans ask, "What can my country do for ME?!?!?!?!" They don't understand why Democrats don't care about that question.
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Male 37,015
bliznik But someone who does the exact same thing for a foetus is a monster in your books?
THAT is the difference between a Dem and a Repub. Not that bullshit you just pulled out of your ass.

Repub: I will do what's right and just. I hope you do so also.

Dem: I will force others to do what I believe in, even if I don't follow my own rules, and that's fine because I'm morally superior. The Liberal Elite are above the law...

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Male 1,364
But someone who does the exact same thing for a foetus is a monster in your books?

Nope. When did I ever say that? You really love these straw-man arguments.

Someone who does the exact same thing for a week-old fetus without taking into consideration any of the opinions of the mother and without taking into consideration what a week-old fetus actually is is just an ignorant tyrant who is unwilling to act upon peer-reviewed, evidence-based scientific information.

Repub: I will do what's right and just. I hope you do so also.

Taking away funding in a way to completely dissolve a government service is not "I hope you do so also." 

Dem: I will force others to do what I believe in, even if I don't follow my own rules, and that's fine because I'm morally superior.

I don't even know what you're talking about here. This is just a weird sentence.
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Male 37,015
bliznik "Nope. When did I ever say that?"

Sorry, I wasn't specific. I refer to this: "I will fight and risk my job, my possessions, and my home in order to fight for the rights of women, and to fight for equality for women."

You do know that half the babies aborted are girls, right? Change the word "women" with "baby" (or indeed to "all humans") and you have the pro-life stand. 

Government "services" are not written in stone unless they are in the Constitution, ok? Abortion is not there, a right to life is. It is not "a right" to get free taxpayer money for elective surgical procedures. 

Thus if a government program is too expensive or violates human rights, or is simply not needed? It gets cut. period, end of story. You don't like it? Bring the subject up in the next election. Trump is doing his job properly, deal with it.
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Male 1,364
5cats 

I know that half of the potential life that is in a fertilized egg has the potential to become a girl.

Which is the rub. Pro-lifers equate a fertilized egg with life. The Supreme Court of the United States only equated a fetus with both a heart and a brain as life. ...and there are people who are in between.

Obviously, there's no way to come to an agreement on this...it's a chicken and an egg argument. But that is why we let legislators, and courts, decide.

So here, Trump is going against the will of the courts. Which is OK, it's his prerogative and right as President of the United States. But it's also OK for voters to protest if he does. That's our right as well.
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Male 37,015
bliznik You seem to be mistaken bliznik, the Supreme Court allows ANY foetus to be aborted. Even 8+ months developed, even the day before it is due. So no, there is no 'legal definition' of what is a human and what is a lump of cells that can have its brain scooped out. You are just plain misinformed.

In Canada? there is NO LAW AT ALL regarding abortion. Only who is legally allowed to perform one. 

It is not chicken and egg, it's easy: DNA. When does a embryo/foetus have its own DNA? The answer is after the 4th division. Simple.

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Male 1,364
5cats 

I don't think you've read the Supreme Court decision. It doesn't say what you think it does.

Read it and try again.
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Male 37,015
bliznik So... partial induction abortions are illegal? Now? Today? You can show this?
Yes... or no?
The answer is: NO! They are NOT illegal. 8+ month abortions are COMPLETELY LEGAL and ANY effort to restrict them is fought "tooth and nail" by the DNC, MSM and liberal left. 

So... fucking wake up already. 
Me try again?  Fuck no, you are just plain wrong. Think not? Prove it. Partial induction is STILL LEGAL in the USA, admit this or GTFO.
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Male 1,364
5cats Not sure what GTFO means...am I to leave the room that I'm currently in?

The court divided pregnancy into three trimesters.

In the first trimester, the decision is in the hands of the woman and her physician. No outside parties can intervene in that decision.

In the second trimester, the state can intervene if the procedure might harm the woman.

In the third trimester, the state can regulate abortion. Some states choose to regulate abortion in the third trimester...meaning in those states no abortions can be made in the 8th month. About half of the states in the U.S. don't allow any abortions past the 24-26th week. Only 9 states in the U.S. choose not to regulate abortion in the third trimester.

So, there are many states where 8th month abortions are illegal.

So... fucking wake up already. 
Fuck no, you are just plain wrong. Think not? Prove it. 8th month abortions ARE ILLEGAL IN PARTS OF THE USA. Admit this or...uhhh...well, keep ranting the way you always do--I guess. 
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Male 37,015
bliznik The US SUPREME COURT said NOTHING about when an abortion is legal or not. They ruled on when States can make laws? That's completely different since they were not making a law about it. Why are YOU avoiding the facts? Can YOU not admit you made a mistake and were wrong? Grow up already, sheesh.

Where are partial induction abortions illegal? Show me. And even if they are in SOME States? I'm still right, they are legal! 
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Male 1,364
5cats You've changed your statements a few times.

"the Supreme Court allows ANY foetus to be aborted"

This is a misleading statement. This statement implies that the Supreme Court allows any fetus to be aborted without restrictions. The Supreme Court allows abortions without any restrictions in the first trimester, allows states to completely make abortions illegal in the third trimester, and allows states to add health-related restrictions in the second trimester.

"So... partial induction abortions are illegal?"

There is no law on partial induction abortions. However, abortions using induction techniques are de facto performed in the 3rd trimester. There are no partial induction abortions performed in the 1st or 2nd trimester. This means that what you call partial induction abortions are a subset of 3rd trimester abortions.

Florida, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota, South Carolina, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Ohio, Tennessee, Utah, Washington, Wisconsin, Wyoming, Nevada, Iowa, Texas, and Virginia all outlaw abortions after 24 weeks of pregnancy, which includes 3rd trimester abortions. 
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Male 37,015
bliznik huh! I didn't know there were any restrictions at all in the US. I know a lot of States have tried to impose them, but they all (I thought) got tossed out by the courts. I was incorrect!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_abortion_restrictions_in_the_United_States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States_by_state

Not sure what 'triggering' means, if Roe v Wade got overturned the laws would kick in? Anyhow, there are State restrictions, but not from the Supremes, which would cover every State uniformly, yes?
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Male 1,364
5cats As far as I know that's correct. There are currently no restrictions that will cover every state uniformly. Most of the current lawsuits don't seek to overturn Roe v. Wade, but rather attempt to shift the dividing lines between the three trimesters to give states more regulation authority over greater portions of the first and second trimesters.
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Male 4,372
bliznik I am really beginning to think 5cats does not know what a republican is. In these past "definitions" of a republican and Democrat he seems to have confused the two
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Male 4,372
5cats Rep: I will force others to do what I believe in, even if I don't follow my own rules, and that's fine because I'm morally superior. The Conservative  Elite are above the law...

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Male 4,372
thezigrat 5cats Traditional Marriage, The Rep Leader has had 3 wives and several mistresses, and brags about grabbing women by the pussy against their will. Abortion a No NO (trying to ban) even though legal. Gay Marriage a NO NO (trying to ban) even though legal etc etc etc. In a number of states the Republicans even forced into  law what sexual positions consenting couples are allowed to use in the privacy of their own bedrooms  (often it is ONLY missionary) if that is not forcing others into doing what they say, WHAT IS?
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Male 4,372
thezigrat 5cats Democrats do not force people into gay marriage. They do not force women to have unwanted babies against their will. They do not force their religious beliefs on others in public schools. They do not promote psudo-science as science fact in school (Creationism)etc etc etc
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Male 255
Dunno.  Maybe they thought that their principles were more important than money?


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Male 620
punko he's a Republican, you'll have to explain principles to  him.
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Male 4,372
marsii I tried, the Immortal knows, I tried
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Male 37,015
punko Funny, whenever any conservative does that? The MSM jumps down their throat and screams blue murder... as do the IAB Liberals...
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Male 4,372
5cats WHEN THEY DESERVE IT
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Male 4,372
Keep baby organ  repossessions legal!
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